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daic
Supporting Member 2015

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Why these "new" casterguilds, like psionicists and covens are so unpopular among players? Imo psis and covens could make nice damage, even with low levels. Are the locations of these guilds so faw away from Vaerlon that newbies prefer other guilds. How about making some NPC on Vaerlon that gives transports for newbies to the guilds?

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artic
Supporting Member 2005

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Me personally think the infecti is not good for a newbie. I tried a level 25 infecti and was not impressed. I did good damage with my spells, but was able to train them only to a very low %. so i failed a lot. And the defencive spell (interia bubble -i think) you wont get until after level 25. So you get hurt a lot, combine that with fail a lot and you get a very low max kill.

But thats just my personal experience. maybe if played right...
daic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 15:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Getting a tank and a priest in party helps a lot. Only thing that gives disadvantages to psionisist is the regen of psionic spell points. Though Psp last longer than normal sp.

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uzriel
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 16:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

For me there is one big reason, they are not very good at soloing. I'm not that much of a party-player and as it is right now there is no good solo casterguild from what i understand.
misrobo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 20:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

With enough exp, solo sorcerers are fearsome. Though that takes a lot of exp to get there. Not to say a solo sorcerer doesn't die a lot, a 100k mob with a fine steel greatsword can always get lucky and ruin your day, but thats life.

I started as a gnome air priest and stuck with it up until the mid-50 level range. That soloed reasonably well, though there were some awkward times when my party rate was so much better than my solo rate that soloing seemed pointless. (This was also before hunting and riding were tuned, I spent a lot of time on my mule in a swamp with a spear. Stick-em and zap-em.)

I've never been a mage or an infectii, but I've heard race plays a big part in how well they solo.
tanooki


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 03:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

As a newbie who has reinc'd heaps ... I can see a couple of limitations with the new classes that mean I still go back to mage or airpriest in preference

With the Infecti:

1) the point made by a previous poster is quite valid .. I only got up to about lvl 23 ... but the failure rate was very high ... despite having decent skills (for a newbie). I think the limitation seems to be the low trainable max for the core skill, whose name escapes me atm .. the magic lore equivalent.

in comparison .. immediately reinc'ing to mage .. the generally cheaper skill costs meant that I was up to about lvl 25/26 with a magic lore >70, much harder hitting spells and a very low failure rate combined with the rite of success

2) the regen time was _markedly_ slower than a mage .. I _did_ fork out for some pspregen equip ... which only made a very minor difference

3) I really like the fact that psi's get a broader range of spells rather than just the various types of attack spells that mage gets. This is what attracted me in the first place, however at newbie levels they just aren't all that useful .. and the damage output and failure rate don't compensate for them

4) I really like the psi class, in terms of the concept and the broader range of spells .. but at the lower levels, it just doesn't compare the the mages unfortunately and the utility spells don't make up. Unfortunately the main solutions that would keep me in the class at a lower level include things such as raising the trainable max of the "magic lore" equivalent skill at lower levels.

5) the other thing I'd _love_ to see for the psi's which might make them a bit easier for the newbies is to introduce a combat subguild which teaches basic combat skills. I love the idea of a psi warrior who can take advantage of the fact that disciplines can be evoked while holding weapons. For the newbie it'd make failing all the time a little less painful .. and the insane regeneration times more bearable. I don't think this is too out of keeping with the guild. It's not _meant_ to be a pure casting guild from what I understand .. it doesn't get the automatic join to the alchemists, and as a collection of ppl who are joined by their warped insane minds, it stands to reason some might be a bit more psychotically physically violent as well. This will help the newbies out, without overpowering the highbies who would end up relying on the more damaging spells anyway. This way you could have more customisation of the class allowing you to develop the character the way you want .. by balancing the more physically powerful races with lower int/wis .. or a smaller race with better casting abilities
dyzmal


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 04:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

"Are the locations of these guilds so faw away from Vaerlon that newbies prefer other guilds. How about making some NPC on Vaerlon that gives transports for newbies to the guilds?"

Certain guilds aren't created for newbies, and are hidden away to make things more interesting. Unless Ereldon will tell you how to get to a guild, it is most likely not a newbie guild, and will involve some exploration to find. Smile

"as it is right now there is no good solo casterguild from what i understand"
The Coven is going to be, IMO, a very impressive solo-caster guild once it gets going. It's a brand new guild, so they are constantly tuning it right now. (At least they were last time I checked.) They could use some skills like dodge/melee, but I found myself taking out reasonably high mobs at a low level. I think the best way to describe the experience was like this: I got a critical casting Blight once and killed a 10k mob with one attack. Sure, you can expect to probably die alot in the guild, and take quite a bit of hits. But if you (starting out in the guild as a newbie) use scourges, wait till you run out of sp (believe me you will run out of sp before you will run out of hp Razz), regen, and repeat, you will make some pretty damn good experience.


Also, on a side, note, both Psi's and Warlocks have a very unique way of fighting. I love the Psi's probe-spell system, and the Warlock's cast-coven_touch scourges system. It's worth reincing to them just to experience the way that they play, even if it's just for a day or so.
khade
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 04:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

coven should not have melee, as they really don't hit the enemy, and from what i understand, you want to die, it makes you angrier and makes the poisons more potent.
ghir
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 18:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

dyzmal wrote:
It's worth reincing to them just to experience the way that they play, even if it's just for a day or so.


This is exactly the main problem, there are so many disadvantages to reincing. Two reincs equals to about (on average) 8-10% total worth lost. In addition to that, the statexp system SEVERELY limits your training options.

But in my case, the 8-10% is the biggest problem, that's 40-60m of exp and making that back will take me around 125-200 hours of nonstop exp making. Naturally all this depends on guild and these are just estimations.
felgand


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 22:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

8-10% tends to be the high end of exp lost during reincarnation...it's more common to see losses around 5%. Regardless, a system like this favors having smaller players reincarnate often, larger players have a lot more to lose and in that way are discourged from reincarnating as often.
gnoza


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

i have been coven for now... one week Smile
and yes u can solo with this guild.
ofcourse there are lil problems
1) low con, so need to flee quick from battles
2) spells fails because i have low spell %, but spells cost lil too much i think

i was mage and it was quite good in soloing too.
but i think THE real problem is that ppl tell each others that this guild don't work on your level and so on. i was told that coven would not make any damage with my total worth.
ppl have to courage lil ppl to test other guilds i think...
ghir
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 15:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

felgand wrote:
8-10% tends to be the high end of exp lost during reincarnation...it's more common to see losses around 5%. Regardless, a system like this favors having smaller players reincarnate often, larger players have a lot more to lose and in that way are discourged from reincarnating as often.


8-10% for 2 reincs -> 4-5% per reinc. 4-5% seems to be the normal reinc cost, sometimes people get 2-3% and every now and then, 6-7%, so 4-5% is pretty much the average.
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