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pfloe
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The skill is kinda boring at the moment, we have six patterns but mostly just double cross is used along with maybe singing blades for soloing. A slight renovation to make the system more dynamic would be in order.

First step would be to reduce the def cp dependance on defensive pattern damage, all defensive patterns should do maybe about 85% of offensive pattern damage with full offensive combat assigns, and vice versa with full defensive assign.

Cross/singing blades should be fastest, easiest and least damaging patterns while double cross/falling seeds should be slowest, hardest and most damage.

Mastery effects should be partially redesigned so that all patterns would be situationally useful. Switching between patterns should be common. To this end, the chance to trigger a mastery effect shouldn't depend on the pattern mastery, but instead should be based on ic and increased by unity mastery. Instead, the pattern mastery should increase the effect.

Some examples on the renovated patterns follow:
Cross - temporarily reduces or removes target defensive capabilities (def assigns and/or skills) - pattern mastery increases duration and/or effect if complete removal is too powerful
Cat stroke - does damage to all enemies in the room - pattern mastery increases damage (someone come up with a better name for the pattern Razz)
Double cross - increases offensive assigns and continuous assault skill temporarily - pattern mastery increases duration and/or effect

Arguably the dc mastery might be weaker than it is now, but it's kind of stupid to have the strongest defensive mastery effect on the staple offensive pattern.

Then on to defensive patterns, we could have

Singing blades - breaks/prevents casting, could be aoe or single target - pattern mastery increases duration or trigger chance, depending on wether the effect is just a spellbreak or a longer effect
Diamond lunge - current effect (stun) - pattern mastery increases duration
Falling seeds - current effect (same as dc) - pattern mastery increases duration

Diamond lunge effect I'm not too sure about, stun is sort of boring and often problematic effect and it has a lot of overlap with the both other defensive patterns, some other defensive effect would probably be better.

Overall, the effects should trigger commonly enough that they're sort of dependable; some, like the dc or cat stroke effect, could be almost guaranteed and instead balanced through modifying the effect strength, while others, like falling seeds, should stay rare like they are now.

Another vaguely related change I'd like to see would be making melee massacre a passive skill. The effect would instead be active while you're concentrating on whirling blades (ie, from the moment you start using wb until it hits), and you'd get off or def points depending wether you're using a def or off pattern, the amount depending on melee massacre skill% and unity mastery. Resist exhaustion could have a passive effect of slightly reducing ep spent on attacking/defending while whirling so that the massacre redesign wouldn't drain rangers in a party too fast. Similarly, the extra hits or dodges from wb should in my opinion trigger while you're using the maneuver, instead of for x rounds after the skill finishes, so the skill would more feel like a long, continuous maneuver starting from the "You start whirling your weapons" and culminating in the big hit at the end.

So, some food for thought, interested to hear any opinions and ideas, especially diamond lunge and double cross effects are bit boring as presented above.
tolin
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree that the presence of diverse effects makes whirling blades interesting, and damage is less important.
I don't think whirling blades is that boring atm, as all six patterns are already different without the specials.

However, things that definitely can be improved are:
* the special for double cross - makes more sense to be offensive (I like the idea of temporarily lowering the defenses of the target here)
* the special for singing blades - makes more sense to be defensive (spell disruption may be too powerful though)
* melee massacre - it is kind of stupid to have this as a level requirement, as it is (mostly) mutually exclusive with whirling blades (make more sense to have "whirling blades>X OR melee massacre>Y" as a level requirement).

Furthermore:
* A special that harms all opponents in the room (cat) seems a bit too powerful to me.
* Singing blades should not be an easy pattern, but should not do much damage either (it should be a difficult *defensive* pattern).
* Pattern masteries should primarily increase the frequency of specials firing, which is as it is now. This seems fine to me.
osma


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 04:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

1: cat stroke is supposed to already have a special effect: it is supposed to be more effective (higher damage i assume) against animals. dont know since i arch far more then whirl).

2: agree that resist exh. should reduce the ep cost of ranger skills. as it stands i never bother to train it/use it. it would be nice if melee massacre did something else, but if i understand the skill properly, it is not mutualy exclusive. i thought the skill, once used, raised offense points for a set duration. so use melee massacre, then start whirling.

3: didn't it used to be (still might) that when using a offensive pattern you got a bonus to offensive (higher %) while when using a defensive pattern you got higher % in def? if not, that could be what melee massacre does, a background effect that makes your points increase signifigantly after a successful whirl, based on type of whirl.

4: as for area effect whirling blades, i seriously doubt it will be used, and if it is i want an appology since i thought of that yeas ago, and was ridiculed for it for at least a year (tornado slash i think i called it. a new pattern that did low damage to multiple enemies.). come to think of it, low damage to multiple enemies is EXACTLY what scion swordsman do with a momentum. so maybe it will be implemented now.
khade
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 21:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Resist exhaustion has a passive effect of increasing your ep max, actually using it doesn't do a whole lot, but it can be useful to boost your ep beyond what it is normally.

Melee massacre isn't just a ranger skill, actually until just now I thought it was a shapeshifter only skill, since I hadn't seen it anywhere else.
tolin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 14:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:

3: didn't it used to be (still might) that when using a offensive pattern you got a bonus to offensive (higher %) while when using a defensive pattern you got higher % in def?

Yes, still the case, and an important feature indeed.

Quote:

but if i understand the skill properly, it is not mutualy exclusive. i thought the skill, once used, raised offense points for a set duration. so use melee massacre, then start whirling.

Yes, but this depends on which pattern you are using too.
For offensive patterns it may be possible to insert melee massacres when needed. For defensive patterns, on the other hand, the time spent starting melee massacre equals time with lower defense, which may be quite costly. It kinda contradicts the set-up of using a defensive pattern.
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