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Mage Tweaks
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felgand



Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 09:25 am    Post subject: Mage Tweaks Reply with quote

With the influx of new caster guilds (sorcerers and psionicists) whom are able to solo effectively and can take hits rather well. I think it is reasonable to improve a mage's soloing ability somewhat to make them less obscenely dependant upon a party. I propose one (or both) of the following changes to help mages to this end:

1.) Let invisibility drop a mage's sp to 50% of their current mana instead of ~20% or

2.) Allow mages to cast mirror image while invisible without negating invisibility.

These proposed changes are solely designed to help a mage improve their solo'ing ability (quite slow without expensive constitution blessings) without affecting their partying ability (which is reasonably good already).
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daaemon
Supporting Member 2016


Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 01:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most mages I have talked to, with me included, find soloing almost a complete waste of time. Not only is exp painfully slow, but quite dangerous. Even 30 k mobs can stun me before I can flee, even with mirrors up. And, I cannot go back in without casting invisible, and often getting hammered before I can flee again. It is because of the absolute reliance on parties that I am going to reincarnate to another guild, even after saying I never would. But, it is just not worth sitting for hours waiting for a party anymore. I really like Felgand's suggestions, especially the second one, where a mage can cast a non offensive spell and then proceed, without losing inv.
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ciera



Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 02:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree with Daaemon. I enjoy being a mage but soloing is rough - really difficult to make any decent exp on my own. I spend too much time idling waiting for a party to materialize. I do prefer parties, of course, they are fun, but I hate being so dependent on other people. Felgand's suggestions sound good to me. A character as powerful as a mage should not be so completely vulnerable.
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ayumi



Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 05:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are lovely ideas. Though the mirrors while invis wouldn't make any difference unless invisibility cost was also lowered, as you said. So it would imo have to be both or nothing.
Personally i'd say letting mirrors stay on until you actually move while fleeing would be a nice uptune.

But about mages being sooooo utterly dependant on partying, so hopeless and useless on their own.. Bah, partying is better than soloing for pretty much any guild, yes? The first guild and guild i've played most was mage, and most of the time I'd *gasp* solo. You know what though? it's all about what mobs you choose to kill. When I reinc'd to ranger I felt lack of power because I couldnt kill the same mobs i could as a mage (shanty town orcs or wolf packs) but i started killing mobs I wouldnt think about killing as an ice mage (undeads) and the exp is just fine. All it took was adopting a new routine. My guess would be, if you cant flee by the time they stun you, youre aiming too high *shrug* (not necessarily exp wise, but keeping the weapon of the opponent in mind, if its some big nasty greatsword then obviously you'll get your bum kicked). Find something else? Try big groups of mid-sized mobs, great exp. I never felt that mage soloing was a waste of time. In fact there are a few cases where mage soloing would even be preferable to partying. :P (exp wise that is, it's all about the exp here, isnt it)

I agree about the invisibility thing though, that was the only thing I really complained about. Yes if you're fighting a half decent mob you'll probably need to invis just to get a second shot in, and meditating really gets boring. Think i'd prefer to learn move silently instead. But yknow even then while waiting to invis, I could kill Khuktar in about the same time i would meleeing in another guild, probably :P

These changes would be nice though, yes. And small enough to not make much of a difference. But I dont think mages (with the correct tactics, as that log in tip says) are dependant on parties. i think they can do just fine solo. :)

...*misses killing wolf packs*
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tilamond



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Norway - but mostly in WoW

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mage beholder is leet, thats all to it, they have the most hp of all the caster races ( I think) and the rays are uber
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felgand



Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 23:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Tilamond Reply with quote

Quote:
mage beholder is leet, thats all to it, they have the most hp of all the caster races ( I think) and the rays are uber


I've gotta ask...how is this even relavent to the thread?
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kade



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 03:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it shows that you can be a 1337 caster I'd say.
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felgand



Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 06:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*chuckle* Beholder mages aren't all milk and cookies, I'd say...they have their significant limitations. If you don't believe me, try one sometime.
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brich



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Bacau, Romania

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 08:19 am    Post subject: I have been a beholder mage Reply with quote

I have tried a beholder mage. It was my first option even. I agree they have somewhat lower caster abilities to compensate for theyr soloeness but you can't have them all. There has to be,and there is ,balance. You wouldnt expect a leprechaun, which is the smallest race to my knowledge, to be hit in the head with a weapon several times his size and simply survive.
Ok I say those ideas sound nice but what Tilamond said is there are ways to be mage and solo. By the way, Tilamond has been Beholder mage too.
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daaemon
Supporting Member 2016


Joined: 04 Jun 2004
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 06:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I will put it this way, I had pretty good masteries. In my guild it was 100, arrow swarm 100, missile 88, etc. and I struggled and could not hold 2 k a minute solo. Except for a few higher mages I was with I casted faster and harder than anyone I partied with. I think most will agree, as I hold some of the all time most powerful spells. And, even with mirrors and inv. I could hardly hold 2 k a minute... and I was not fighting big mobs... I cannot tell you how many time a sleeping man or woman stunned me... no weapon at all. After switching guilds, I cannot even imagine returning to mage. I do that much better, have access to more money, etc. So, I get tired of the mages have balance and can solo with the best of em... If that were true, why not stay mage? Just curious... I have no interest in going back to mage now anyway, so me agreeing with felgand is not for a reward for me, but rather the 3-4 mages that sit around at night without a party, lucky to solo half what other guilds take for granted.
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felgand



Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 07:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading your points, Brich, I'll have to disagree with you. Granted a beholder mage is more healthy than most other races suitable to be a mage, however even said beholder mage can't hold the same solo rate as say, a shapeshifter or sorcerer can with approximately the same totals and comparable masteries. If a beholder mage can't compare already, you can imagine where the frailer magi races lie on the scale. In addition, beholders probably have the oddest selection of armor slots in the game, greatly limiting their choice of clothing among other limitations that may not be as noticable at lower totals.

P.S: Mold men are the smallest race, not leprechauns.
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brich



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 86
Location: Bacau, Romania

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 13:58 pm    Post subject: long since I played beholder Reply with quote

It has been a long time since I tried beholder and I'm not going to say that they ARE ,now, better soloers then other guilds.I've been archer recently and I found that certain guilds have it easier with certain mobs. I don't know for sure but those rooms with many little mobs seem to be the main menu for mages,I might be wrong.
Beholders have few slots and that might be a far better thing then many can imagine : get many mithril,titanium or so rings (which are quite cheap relative to the protection) and a fine steel full plate helmet and your set for huge ac for a mage. let's not forget the charming eye .
My point wasn't the leprechauns are the smallest race . Thing is they are small. I thought of this: a beholder gets hit by same mob with same damage as a leprechaun. Now, shouldn't the leprechaun be literaly squashed while the beholder barely scratched?
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felgand



Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 14:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple fact that it has been a significant amount of time since you attempted a mage (and at relatively low exp totals, mind you) likely colors your opinion of a mage's ability to solo. Groups of 3-4 monsters worth 1-5k are relatively common, however it's quite a bit harder to find an equal number of groups worth 10k or greater (barring a certain sorcerer-dominated town)...and even more difficult to find ones that don't manage to stun a mage within the run. Mages shouldn't have to resort to pdf constitution blessings to be competitive while soloing at the midranks when the newer guilds aren't bound by the same restrictions.

As far as ring slots go, I don't know about you...but titanium/mithril rings with high enough ac to warrent use (since many of those don't quite augment a mage's abilities much) aren't quite that common. In addition, beholders have one of the worst crit spots of the player races which compensates for the generally higher protection rings offer.
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artic
Supporting Member 2005


Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 15:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing yourself with sorcerers is pointless- as a matter of fact comparing yourself with any other guild is pointless. So a mage cant solo, well neither can a air priest. And a low level militia player is quite useless for party. If you dont like how a guild works, well, reinc.

I have played almost all guilds in the game- tried every one for a short period of time. And at my low level they are very much the same exp rate. The only guild that i was able to do better exp than any other was earth priests- and i guess thats why they got removed.
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grainer
Supporting Member 2015


Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 87
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 19:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artic wrote:
So a mage cant solo, well neither can a air priest. And a low level militia player is quite useless for party.

Sorry, that I have to get picky, but Air priests can solo relatively well after you get to level 50+ and start getting working life boost, both heal&off-spells and haste. And militia isn't useless. Maybe, if you try to regulary exp 50k mobs with lvl 15 char (assuming that's what you mean by "low level") it's quite hard. They fight well all mobs their "size".
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