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belecam


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There was some talk about getting masteries or something to militia.

Army is teamwork, so I suggest that militia could have somekind of coordinated attacks in parties.
For example highest ranking officer orders other militia members in party to do coordinated attacks, one draws attention of mob while other(s) strikes it to soft spot. -> mob can't defend itself.

Another example. Officer calls an attack and all militia members use strike at same time with little fancy extra. Plain and simple, the army way.


I've got some other ideas about existing masteries and skills, but i'm not sure how "openly" masteries and guild skills can be discussed on forums. Razz
eradicatus


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 16:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

To start i'd like to say that i haven't been a militia member myself but atm would like to reinc to one but..Templars templars templars templars. That's all i keep hearing these days. Well not all as they lost the armour plate -spell and are not _that_ good on eq anymore. So time for militia to shove a boot between the closing door, or so to say.. Well yes, now that militia is in my opinion not suffering from the "hoover" syndrome of the templars they must be the ultimate def-tanks of all times. As a healer i can say that yep, militia can take more punishement now than templars but what are they planning? A defender-subguild for templars? I _guess_ there will then be both off and def offshoots in templars. I've seen this somewhere..oh yes in the militia! But the difference is that if there is no uptune for militia the templars will once again take the position of a preferred def-tank in a party. And with enough experience you _may_ be able to make an offdef-tank as you can with a militia..only that they will _probably_ be thousand fold better in that too. So by tuning militia off-skills a tad up and the def-skills some also we might still see those army men running around, putting a shield in harms way and striking here and there. Also one thing i must say hits a bit odd..it's the templars guard duty. Yes i once again rise the question, should it be the militia's work? There's a sign saying "martial law" with caps at ereldon. Shouldn't the army have something to do in this sort of time? Personally i have only few ideas what to add for militia's area of expertise so i hereby wish that all you guys and girls alike would brainstorm some ideas here. Belecam has a good start but by this time those ideas are, if i'm correct, already implemented on the gaesati guild. But please add more of these ideas and maybe one day well see more of the army. P.S. My first post so didn't have much idea of how to make this look better but let's see if i get excited Razz Edit: Ok, i have to say this one looks terrible Very Happy
artic
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 05:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

1) Militia already has a group-based mastery! I have not been in the militia for quite some time, but i remember thet they had a thing called 'shield-wall'. One of the party would some how call the order and for a short period all the militia fron-row'ers would form a wall out of their shields, boosting their defensive powers a great deal. It would also lower attack power, but would still protect both the front and back row very decently. It was a mastery so you couldn't train it fast and it also requered everyone to wield a shield.

2) The point of militia is simplicity. It is the guild i would recomment to any newbie on their first day of playing icesus. Templars on the other hand are far from simpe- all that religious stuff and the rep, that is added to basicly the same guild makes it quite a pain to play.

3) Why do templars berform guard duty? Well the militia wil recruit anyone, but them a weapon in ahnd and train them to be a meat shield. Templars on the other hand will only recruit people that are already known by the people and will train them if they stay popular with the people. The militia is a blunt weapon that will squash any foolish enough foe, they are sent out to fight hordes of trolls and nigh-elfs. The templars are like the national guard, they get to stay home and keep the piece.
alajrak


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 07:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, yes. Militia can take some physical beating and can parry hits quite well but when it comes to eq mobs, they cast spells and have nasty specials when absorbing damage done is very important, then militia is completely helpless in that compared to templars with their protective spells.
Now templars lack ability of taking serious physical beating because lacking of armourplate but soon as defensive templars come in, militia is completely useless guild for 50-100m+ players(my opinion)
eradicatus


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 17:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Again i stress that i haven't been a militia nor a templar myself but like Alajrak i can see that the militia guild is totally losing it's place. I'm not imposing that templars should be weaker than militia i'm just saying that there's a wide variety of things that templars do better. Like Alajrak said the little army men have no means of stopping element damage types except pure hpmax.
I agree that atm militia is a meat shield and lacks some "cool" features they could have had. Again not saying that someone shouldn't code guilds to be so neat Razz (Props to Galiere)
And i understand that there's no wiz/time/will-power to code possible modifications to militia, test them and upkeep them, but we have to see the possibility of one guild being "abandoned" in the wake of a totally better one.
"There are still two subguilds in Templars that are planned to be added. One of which plays more of a caster/support role than your typical Archknight." -Felgand@one post on the forum ("New guilds..." was the thread name)
If that's true then i cannot see why there should be any other guilds? There would be an templar offdef-tank, a templar caster/supporter, and a templar "healer" with the divine rain. Tank, caster, healer. Ok sounds farfetched, that was a joke Razz
solar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 21:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Militias are a very ugly guild... they lack style and that nice outer shell some other guilds have. Their strike, while effective, doesn't equal some other finely made combat skills... mainly whirling blades with their different patterns and blow of justice with its six supermegamultihypermasteryvirtueattackspecials (1 + 5 = 6)

Also a brief look into their masteries... Oh, they have masteries... but wait! They seem to have been made without much thought given into them, because people wanted militia-masteries. Sure they can enhance your abilities as a warrior, but that's all, it still doesn't make the guild look inviting... There used to be a 'sacrifice' mastery or some such for militias a while back, which allowed them to prevent front row dudes from getting slain in melee by moving their wide army-ass between the enemy and their comrade. This was (imho) a good idea(tm).
Grandmasteries are just that, use your weapon more and get better in using it. They are also effective but simple. The army way.
Shield wall, this one shows promise... (didn't they add this after sacrifice went away?)
Devastating strike... I'm not sure if this only affects the probability of that orange text which claims one's muscles to bulge in power and the time slowing down appearing when skilling. The only cool thing this mastery has is that it can be referred to as the 'deva strike' Very Happy
Hopefully I didn't forget anything... important.

You no doubt have noticed that most of our militias are newbies... or players with low totals (yes, there is a difference). And those with more exp are templar-tanks (mage-exp defs) or Gaesati shapeshifters (offtanks). Now look at this issue like this: Isn't it "realistic" (well, atleast realistic in a fantasy-like setting Icesus has) that templar knight, a militant knight-priest of the elemental gods, would be stronger combatant than an army sub-officer? The way I see it that most templars are of lowbie to highbie level, and most of the militias just happen to be newbie-lowbie characters. Our militias are mostly "footmen", fodder, with the exception of some higher lvl militias, which are the high-ranking officers. I'm not sure what role shapeshifters would have in this point of view.

And as usual with my posts, you completely missed my point. Make militias more attractive to players. At the moment I think they are dull. I'd rather be a sucky melee ranger with style and delusions of grandeur than a brutish armydude who can only get two words out from his mouth: 'kill!' and 'spittle'. Perhaps light and heavy cavarly subguilds could be implemented, if the free-for-all riding guild isn't making its appearance soon.

Perhaps in the future, the higher-ranking militias could have some "npc" soldiers to party with... his 'underlings' or some such... nothing too rocking. Perhaps they could equal some 10k monster in combat ability. Just a thought. (and naturally these wouldn't be given to militias who themselves have hard time against these 10k monsters! But for those who can solo 50k+ monsters in one run). And there might be masteries involved in this thing too, squad leading.

Ack, this one got longer than I intended it to Sad

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alajrak


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 21:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Documention files also says "The third offensive mastery of the militia is battle training. If you are in a party with some other members of the militia, your co-operative skills might enable you to score a few extra strikes every now and then." but when I tried militia 2 months ago nobody knew what that mastery was and nobody had it. I think that battle strategies would be atleast one thing militia would concentrate on or maybe armies of Valkor are just badly organized(atleast atm it is Twisted Evil )

Sacrifice mastery was damn good for militia and with it those could have been compared to templars somewhat better. Also weapon masteries were tuned down(long ago), nowadays bluds only stun(most likely 0 round stuns), others wound(?), before those gave some punch to blows so they had even some offensive power, now they lack both speed and punch on their hits(with high offensive skills too)
Those cavaliers sounds like a very good idea Evil or Very Mad
artic
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 08:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the idea of being able to summon/control some minions in Militia is a great one. Higher level army memebers already get titles like 'general of the army of Vaerlon', so the idea of giving them a couple of footsoldiers to boss-around is not off-theme at all.
Also if a general would have a level 10 NPC in hes party he (already has to be really carefull not to get it killed, so he) wouldnt be that unwilling to have to look after a couple of lvl 15-20 players as well.
I agree that militia is kind of dull. I also think that it is supposed to be so, to make it easyest for total newbies to learn the game. Yet i think that after like level 15-20, it should get a bit more complicated and fun (gradually). Currently it seems all that getting higher levels in militia gives you is a chance to train the same old skills to a higher %. If the guild would start out as simple and blunt as it is now, and get gradually more difficult and fun with more and more options and guild commands etc, it would gradually prepare the newbies for playing in other guilds that have really strange and confusing guild commands/structure/options.
Example: I told my GF to start out as a militia, for it was a simple guild, all she had to do is kick, until she got strike and than strike to injure. That simplicity let her consentrate on the navigation and other features. Than she reinced, to ranger, and was immediatelly overwhelmed by all the rural-combat/whirling blades patterns/terrain info/guild structure etc.

So making militia gradually more difficult sounds likea good idea to me. At level 15-20 more control over other lower level militia members in same party- learing to interact with other players better, at 20-30 more riding and horseback fighting skills- preparing to handle mounts/stables in icesus, 30-... something more that prepares them for something unique to icesus, ...-... maybe some NPC footsoldiers to boss around?.
belannaer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 20:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First of all, open your eye. There hasn't been martial law for months (in real time).
Secondly some of my views for new militia:

The guild is separated in different categories.
1) Infantry
Your basic tankling with offensive and defensive skills. A lot like militia now (strike, shield skills etc.) but with some new twists. Offensive and defensive subs are separated but one can max both.
2) Cavalry
Militia on horses. Lots of horse related skills, lances,jousting etc.
3) Officers (or something like that)
Officers who have new leaderships skills that can be used to coordinate and command party. Different kind of leader commands to handle infantry/cavalry. Current "shield wall" might be a good example of one such skill. Officers wouldn't be so dedicated for combat themselves but would also get skills that allow attacking from second row (not limited to shooting or throwing Wink)

Also idea about having "militia minions" for "officers" sounds interesting when you have been working with earth priests Smile

Discuss about the topic and post your ideas for new militia.
felgand


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 20:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

While I'd love to see calvary introduced into Icesus in some manner, I think that this type of separation may not bring much diversity into the militia guild. Let's consider a scenerio where all three of these guilds (infantry, calvary, and officers) are implemented into Icesus where a player can only choose to become one of these three main guilds.

Infantry would still dominate amongst the ranks of militia since they are the most general purpose and allow a player the greatest number of decent options. Calvary, will mostly consist of a few people who want to take advantage of the tremendous exp'ing possibilities of the outworld...since their mounted skills have little use in most areas. This poses a problem...you'd have folks either making a tremendous exp rate (since they limit their skill choices to a particular area), or they'd be a defunct choice and would end up being as useful as a b'rogh mage. Officers will likely be the rarest breed as in nearly all cases it's more beneficial to take a blaster or healer in the back row in lieu of a semi-tank/semi-blaster/semi-booster. Being mediocre in all areas does not quite help their cause.

I suggest an alternative. Instead of following a hierarchy similar to templars (choose one of three subguilds), allow players to choose from 5 subguilds in which they can only be the master of one (their primary: 5 levels) and a student of the other (their secondary: 3 levels). Each of these guilds would have unique skills that represent adaptations from other guilds or parts of a militia code that could be drawn up. More on this when I get back...Very Happy
eradicatus


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok i may have missed the removal of the martial law -sign.. Smile
solar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

When I spoke to Suron (he briefly had access to these forums), he pointed out that Army should have more implementations to the current rank system. He had "good" ideas (as usual) (most of which I have completely forgotten about Sad (as usual)):

Guild_command which allows those of higher rank to 'bully' those of lesser rank. This might be some sort of forcing the other to do specific commands or not. He suggested the following:

A high-ranking officer could issue an order which would prevent lower ranking soldiers from leaving the room unless a permission is given via guild_command which is specifically used to ask and to give permissions to do something.

A high-ranking officer could force those of lesser rank to join his/her party, for as long time as the officer leads that party. And if these 'forced footmen' go link dead, their characters might even remain in the party!

Now, these might seem abusable, but they can be made so that these wouldn't be! For example, narrowing the amount of commands that the other can be forced to do... for example: 'camp build' could be done, but 'keep protector blade;give protector blade to solar' could not be done.

I don't know how the psionicists' mental suggestion works, but perhaps this one could work about the same, provided that the target is a militia-member and of lower rank than the other.

Oh, don't complain to me! I only did the writing! If you become interested ask Suron if/when you are able.

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khade
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 21:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

in current military doctrine, for infantry there is an enfasis of stealth and killing before the enemy knows that you are there. what icesus needs is some stealth tactics for the infantry, maybe a special sub-guild for that sort of fighting, and you could party with nightstalkers and shadowdancers easily. also it would be fun
khade
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 04:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

i think that you should be able to join the fire-priests from the militia, as a sort of subguild, like monks can do with earth and air priesthoods.
oh, and pardon my spelling errors, i can't spell at all at the moment.
felgand


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 04:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It's rather hard to be stealthy when clad in heavy armor...and these are (relatively) dumbarse brutes trained to protect a city whose main patron is Ptthule, the goddess of Air...militia shouldn't be allowed to join the priests of Fire as it is not in Vaerlon's best interests and it's doubtful they would make qualified priests anyway.
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