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felgand


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I'm not sure that air priests need more pure offensive power since the main purpose of the guild is to heal and sooth wounds. In addition, it wasn't that long ago where bladed wind was downtuned because it allowed certain air priests to hold very impressive exp rates...more offensive power would only exacerbate this problem.

That being said, I think the spell, electric whirlwind, could be changed to something that has a bit more utility than its current form. Perhaps rename it as charge weapon or something similar where the spell is cast at another player or oneself, adding a lightning special to their weapon or natural weapons that decays over time. Training in the spell increases both the effect and duration. Perhaps has it cause a one-round loss of attacks and some extra lightning damage...or something to that extent.

In addition, it's a tad odd that air priests don't have any access to a flight-type spell that they could cast only on themselves...that would allow them to pass water/avoid ground spells, being that they focus so much on revering air.

Lastly, air priests aren't exactly useless while soloing...however, until very high levels, it is difficult for an air priest to excel in both solo play and party play without sacrificing one or the other. Since most young air priests choose party play, it explains that rather paltry solo'ing ability folks complain about. Razz
artic
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

In my opinion air priest need no more offencive power.
Comparing them (or any other guild) to the late earth priests is pointless. Earth priest were removed because they were too powerful. (So, Yes, that means all other guilds compared to them are weak.)
But, i do think that the gradual spell system needs some more sense. All the weak spells are requirements, why would the guild require me to study spells, that dont help me at all? And if i dont have 'mend skin', does it mean my 'mend bone' heals the bones but does not close the cuts in the skin?
grainer
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 14:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I agree with Artic that comparing any current guild to earth priests is pointless, because they were removed because they were very out of tune.

On the spell-issue: the mend-spells do have ranges in which they work best. You can cast mend skin at a tank who's at 20% hp, but it will not be as effective as it could, also you can cast mend bones at tank with 85% hp and it as well won't be as effective as it could. So healer needs all 4 (well, maybe not much mend skin) mends to effectively use them.
suron


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 21:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Actually no, you only need mend flesh to heal damage if tank has between 60%-91% of health, above 91% you don't need to heal (unless doing eq) and if health goes under 60% you use embrace of vitae to bring the tank up to 60%+ health and continue with mend flesh. (This is in combat)

Out of combat, you use generally mend spells for the lower sp cost.


(There are some freaks out there who use only healing touch for the best heal/sp ratio, don't concern yourself with them as they are bad image for the entire guild Very Happy)
solar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ah, I see that you have actually read my post... and haven't found it utter crap. This is nice, however I do wish to clarify that by mentioning possible 'new offensive spells' wouldn't exactly mean that they would have to turn out to be spells like 'Super-great call lightning mk.2' or 'Solar's unavoidable strangulation'. More options in offensive spells != more offensive _power_.

As a side note, Earth_priests were powerful, the 'new and improved' Earth_priests should be more in tune with the balance of things. The old (I know very little of the new(test-phase?)) Earth_priests had too great an effect on the number of monsters killed per human player, and were therefore removed (I suspect this being the main reason). Also, their minions did not get their share of money and eq... (reason 2)
This meaning that a single earth_priest player would have used many times more the "mud-resources (in terms of monsters, money, eq) than other player-classes that day.

I have always wanted more options (of perhaps equal power) for everything, probably because that way I could choose the more stylish (and sometimes less used) alternative. Even spells that do the very same effect, but with different descs would do just fine... for starters.

When(note: _not_ 'if' Very Happy ) you code new spells/skills/abilities, you _don't have to_ uptune or downtune the guild in question. Of course, these things can get easily out of control. Usually people start to whine that X is too useless or too powerful.

But my point in comparing different elemental priests are that none of them should be more powerful than the others. Naturally defensive/non-combat/(healing) capabilities take (or should take) from offensive capabilities and vice versa. Old Earth_priests did have their undead meatwalls in front of them, which they could heal, as well as safely blast from behind them. And this luxury did not even take its share of money and eq...

Argh, now I went on ranting and just look at this mess! Hopefully even one of you is able to understand me... or my arguments.

Okay, now that you have read this and are confused, I'll clarify it a lot:

Air_priests: Not more power, but more spells. w: Not that major an uptune, only more options concerning spells that are used.

Old Earth_priests: Were > current Air_priests, w: new earth_priests = (in power, not in appearance!) air_priests, probably air_priests need to be uptuned.

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artic
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 14:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

OK, so you want more spells for the air priests. Why? in the end you'll still be using the most powerfull/fast/less costly spell. So the new spells would be out of combat spells? Join the chronos and youll get some extra spells from there.

All priests have to be the same power? NO they dont! Ok, it might make sense if you compare exprates/money-gain-rates etc. Cause you want the game to be fair, so that one guild wouldn't be a endless money/exp fountain. But i see no reason, why a air-priest should be able to kill the same monsters that a same level priest of any other element could kill. See all priest have their unique theme, advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of a air priest is that they are wanted in almost any party and they can make exp in those parties without risking dieing themselves (unless party leader is stupid and drowns them, like me). The disadvantage is that they cant kill much on their own. (I will not list the advantages of the late earth priests cause i cant think of any disadvantages for them- thats why they got removed).
I'm sure that once all the four priest guilds are done, they will not be equal in power, but very different from each other, each with their own strong points and weak points.
solar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 14:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sigh... I know what you think you know you do, and what I think I know about what I mean.

There are many ways to compare 'power'. The first way is to compare damage dealt divided by sp. The second way is to compare damage dealt divided by time. Third way is to compare all three factors. Then there are rate comparisons and such.

There is no clear way to compare when things get more complex, like how would one compare soloing abilities with partying abilities? How much better soloing would compensate worse partying? These things are problematic (at least for someone of my knowledge) at best. Think of it as a point-buy system roleplaying character sheet stats. All priests should (again, imho) have the same amount of 'points' with which to buy with. It's how they are distributed is what counts. AND NO, don't take it literally, only as a rough example.

Now, let's decide what the things there are worth. Let's presume that we have 100 points. Now we get a skeleton of a bad guild with these points, which might or might not be distributed in the following manner:
Offensive potential: 15
Defensive potential: 10
Miscellaneous (Healing) potential: 5
Partying ability: 30
Soloing ability: 10
Longer regens: -5 (bane of sorts, which adds to the pointmax)
Minions:35 (boon, not needing to share eq/money)

Now, should we compare it to other priest guild X, we note that they only have 70 points allocated between these different things. It is easy to note that 100 > 70.

Unfair? Yes, as fair as being forced to play a halfling character.

No, I do not have a good system with which to value these different aspects of this point-buy example I made up. That should be left for our beloved Wizards.

And if I insult someone with these posts, it is not intentional.

I hope that you got my point.

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felgand


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 22:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Personally, I not sure I understand what you're getting at here Solar. To my knowledge, air priests have access to offensive spells of four different damage types already with at least one being a reasonable good area spell and another which can be chained on multiple opponents. That's a pretty decent range of offensive power already. Granted, they don't have the fine-tuned elemental control of a mage...but that's why they're mages afterall, no?
suron


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 23:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The only offensive power that Air Priests lack in my opinion is anti undead spell, as Air and Earth are opposite elements etc.
At the moment none of the spells are particularly effective against undead as they do
- asphyxiation damage (usually no effect at all)
- cold damage (resists like hell)
- physical damage (some resistance usually)
- electrical damage (better outdoors, sucky indoors)

Ok, if undeads reside outdoors then call lightning does the trick, but otherwise tough luck. As opposite guild and element of the earth priests the Air Priests should get atleast one spell that does pretty well against undeads OR instead of having no effect, you could change the healing spells to damage undeads.
(would be the most easiest way to do it, I think and no reincarnations needed.)

Secondly what the air priests need is some incy wincy little small utility spell besides life boost that they could use when waiting for the rest of the party to regen. I have proposed somekind of air shield protective spell but to no avail. It does not have to be a real damage protection spell, just to have the target to have protection or immunity to wounds and/or poisoning for the duration of the spell. It would not be that earth shattering (hehe) and at the same time secrets of cleansing would get an extra spell under its wing.
shyress
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 21:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First, iŽll start by asking why do mages and psionicists have a floating/lavitation skills, and AIR priest dont?!! gimme a freaking break. If a guild should have float, it should be air_priest! DONE DEAL.So, please add the spell a.s.a.p..Yes, i am pissed.
Sorry for the rude way i put this message, but it cannot be helped by the fact floating skill belongs more to air_priest than mage, and if those guilds have it, air_priest should _DEFINATLY_ have it.

I rest my case, Your Honour. Evil or Very Mad
felgand


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 02:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Just because someone is a practicing Jew, it doesn't mean they can part the seas. Likewise, just because a priest worships Air, it doesn't mean they can float on it. In short, no. There is no compelling reason for air priests to get floating.
rotax


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 03:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If you want to float, be a beholder.
mandrake


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 05:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Actually Imho would have to agree with shyress. though granted I would have mearly pointed out that logicly it would make sense that the Air Priests, whose guild is all about worshipping and serving air, would have at least as much understanding and power with air as mage to float or even levitate small objects if not more as they focus on air just as much as a mage that just masters one damage type. As a mage myself I honestly think it would make sense and be intune to let them do it.
dunn


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 08:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't think flying and healing go together at all.

Pthulle = goddess of healing = goddess of Air. Other guilds can worship Air, does that mean those members partly want to fly?

In my opinion, it's an element area, not a 'mastery over air' type of thing.

And why do you *need* floating? You have about a dozen healing spells.. Sit in a pond and work from there?

A healer that can't swim is a lazy healer Razz
shyress
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 09:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

heh, that was funny felgand. But thats real life, and its not verified that he part the sea into 2. Anyways, im just saying it would be fair for healers to have some floating spell. And no dune, the idea is not to fly(omg) just to get floating spell. And the guild is air_priest guild, Dunn. so your comment makes no reasonable sense.
Thankfully somebody agrees with me for once Wink
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